Be authentic. Build community. 

That is something you hear a lot when building any business these days. 

But what does that look like? How do you take action? 

Episode 123 of The Essential Shift Podcast welcomes Nikki Ellis, entrepreneur and PT, to share her journey of embracing authenticity and how community plays a huge role in the growth of her business.  

We also explore the balance between maintaining a personal brand, this episode is a beautiful combination of resilience, community, and the transformative power of tuning into one’s authentic self.

If you LOVED the episode, make sure you share this on your Instagram stories and tag me @essential.shift and @cinchtraining 

✨ Want to connect and build your business with a support network? JOIN THE CIRCLE✨

KEY EPISODE TAKEAWAYS 

• How to build an authentic community 

• Looking after yourself as an entrepreneur

• Tips to build your personal brand 

• Insights into the fitness industry

SHOW RESOURCES 

• FOLLOW NIKKI on INSTAGRAM - HERE 

• CHECK out NIKKI’s Website - HERE

• JOIN us in The Circle (try 1 month for $29 AUD) - HERE

• FOLLOW me on INSTAGRAM - HERE

• Find out more about how to WORK WITH ME - HERE

If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me @essential.shift.  

ABOUT THE GUEST

Nikki Ellis B.App.Sc (Ex.Sc)

Nikki has been a personal trainer for over thirty years. For seventeen of those she worked as a sessional academic in the College of Exercise and Sports Science at Victoria University in Melbourne, teaching Resistance Training.  Nikki is passionate about getting women to fall in love with the power of weight training. She has been an entrepreneur her entire working life, running Cinch in Melbourne’s North East, a multi award winning  boutique training studio as well as a global brand training women all over the World. Nikki is passionate about women being physically and mentally strong, embracing their tribe, and finding their fierce

Bless it be. 

With love, Laetitia! 

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT 
Laetitia Andrac  1:43 

Hello, Nicki, thank you so much for being on the essential shift podcasts. Love

Nikki Ellis  1:53  

to see it. It is such a pleasure to be here. You know, I've heard so many of your podcasts and you have such amazing guests. So I'm very honored. And

Laetitia Andrac  2:01  

you're going to be amazing. One of the amazing guests on this podcast. I am so excited for everyone to discover you bask into your energy and your magic and all the things that you create in this world. So for anyone, we don't know Nikki yet, can you tell us who is Nikki? Who is this beautiful human being if you know anything? About your energetic blueprint, what are your astrology sign any things that you'd like to share for anyone listening to this being like, I want to listen to it or

Nikki Ellis  2:31  

okay, I guess in short, I'm a personal trainer, but I really don't do much one on one duty anymore. I really run a business. I am a business owner. My business is called cinch. It's in Melbourne's Northeastern suburbs in Heidelberg. And it's it is a personal training studio, but it's also a place where people connect with women in particular have formed this incredible community where we support each other and love each other and I think you know, I'm stepping into thanks to you that it's you're really stepping into my energy or being a spiritual person and letting people know that I am I'm a Sagittarius I'm still learning so don't don't dig too deeply on this because I'm I'm a work in progress with my spirituality. But I'm really learning to be more my authentic self much more than I have in the past 30 years of being a personal trainer, and really finding my voice as a business person as well and really leaning in so that's what we do. So we primarily do group PT my background, I had an exercise science degree and then I went back and I was a sessional academic at Victoria University here and Footscray actually, for 17 years, 17 years of those that was sort of doing a bit of PT and doing bit of this, that lecturing and all sorts of things, but for 10 years of it, I lectured purely in my baby I had my own subject, which was resistance training. So I am basically if you can imagine a hardcore bodybuilding bro, but trapped in a middle age, skinny woman's body that that is who I am. So I'm absolutely besotted with getting a women's strong, feeling strong, feeling amazing, being metabolically healthy and particularly now, moving into perimenopause, and beyond into their Malga years with the feeling that it's a new beginning not and this has become something that's really been a surprise to me, as it is to many women going through perimenopause, menopause, it's like what the hell is going on here? And now it's become something that we're all talking about. And we're all like, we want to learn more. And so I feel like I'm right in the middle of this site, Geist of these brilliant women who are now at that age where they're going into menopause, but they're CEOs of companies and the top of their game and wanting to know more about it and wanting to be strong and physically healthy and feeling great.

Laetitia Andrac  5:10  

I love it and something you really embody as a Sagittarius is how stylish you are. So if you follow Nikki on on social media and I will put all the link it's like every time she's an inspiration she has like the best outfit earrings with Tarot card like she's always a personalities that gives real joy. Oh in you and watching what you're doing is really giving me joy and inspiration. And you know every time I'm doing strength training, and I told you I started doing more resistance band and all that. I messaged you and you're such a heavy supporter of women, getting strong body and finding the right way to move their body and that is so good. It's not one way or the highway. It's really finding something that works for you.

Nikki Ellis  6:01  

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a couple of things to address there. First of all, I want to thank you because being complimented by a French woman on my style is like, absolutely made my year, not my life goal achieved. Secondly, I believe and I come from an exercise science background and could easily have moved into schools and being a phys ed teacher if that was how my life has panned out but I never wanted to do that. But even when I was doing my undergrad degree, I always felt that if I was to become a teacher, my job would be to find something that every kid is good at because I do believe that all of us can find some sort of movement that we love and that works for us and that we're actually not better. You know. And the final thing I want to mention is you know in terms of I look I hand on heart I'm kind of a glamour person, the gym at 5:30am Yes, I'm there and my earrings, my hair on my lip yarn and I'm ready to go you know, but that is just part of my brand and it is very calculated. And because most people in the fitness industry probably add that at the gym at 5:30am with lip yarn and earrings. It's just a little point of difference that I thoroughly enjoy that that comes across very well on Instagram and that people talk about and what I always wanted to see is when my clients come in, no matter what time of day it is, they know I did not just crawl out of bed and put my trackie pants on and rock up to the gym. I am ready and I'm committed and I'm there 100% And that's what that says I think

Laetitia Andrac  7:38  

I love it and it's so important to find your voice find your brand and find what you want to stand out for. And this is so before because you definitely stand out on this. I take the right opposite, right everyone expects a French woman to have makeup on and great hair and I'm just like,

Nikki Ellis  7:59  

you come from that that strong corporate background. Well, you probably were told you must wear high heels to work every day and you must wear a suit and of course you wear makeup. So I've never lived in that world. I've lived in the world of active wear every day. And so I wrote different ends.

Laetitia Andrac  8:17  

So can you tell us the key? What is your origin story of this business? How did you started? Why did you start it? Can you share with us and rewind and take us back to the beginning?

Nikki Ellis  8:31  

Yeah, sure. Well, the beginning beginning really is 3030 odd years ago. So I'm 57 That's longer than 30 years, my goodness. So when I was actually my second year at uni, I this this notion of personal training started to come up what spas personal training, I had heard of it, you know, and I was working in a gym at the time as well as studying full time. And my manager called about four or five gym instructors and troughs and said look, there's this new thing called personal training. We think we should launch it here. Are you guys interested in maybe becoming a personal trainer now this is before Instagram or anything like that? We honestly we didn't only not really know what we were kind of doing. We had no concept of what personal training was was that you said hey, you know sometimes you just gotta jump you say yes, right? Because saying no is still a choice and you know, so anyway, we all said yes. After about two weeks I think three of the guys dropped out because they just like no kidding customers. I am I'm doing don't really want to do it anyway, but I still wanted to flourish and I really enjoyed I am introverted. I love working one on one with people and I love connecting people and connecting with people. So I really do and then I started to notice that the other couple of trainers now wearing different T shirts they were just would never doing things differently to me and it felt like this is gonna get competitive. And so I went back to the manager and honestly, this is your I did not think this through. I did not did not even write notes on a napkin. I just was like straight off the top of my head. I went in and I sat in her office and I said, Listen, I can see exactly what's going to go on here. We're all going to get more and more clients and then we're going to be possibly infighting. It's going to look not at all cohesive. You're going to have different trainers with different T shirts. Let me run this for you we will rebrand as a representative of your business. And I will make sure that the right clients get to the right trainers. And as the business builds I can I can you know control that and I can get more stuff on for you. And we will make this a big success and it will all be happy. I will all be working together. And of course how can you say no to that? So she say great to it. And you can I think from memory you know i i took a split we organized a split. So that's how it all started many many years ago and then for quite a number of years. My husband and I my husband is also was a personal trainer. He's also got an exercise science degree and a master's in nutrition. They were quite a good team. So we started running a business that really ran PT services for large inner city gyms including mountain city bars, Grand Hyatt hotel we were asked to do the Park Hyatt we did quite a lot of you know, apartments around the joint. And it was it was good. It was sort of quite quite a busy business to make a lot of money. I'm gonna be honest, it wasn't really financially successful, but it was busy. So it was a learning process and itself. Fast forward. A few years. Wanted to have babies had my children still lecturing at Wii U and really still had in my heart I'd stopped PT so I had my heart I'm not finished. I still love it and I was at playgroup one day or mother's group or something and I was talking to one of the girls there and she had this route. She was going through a really tough time her husband was dying of lung cancer. And she, you know, obviously she loved him dearly, but the palliative care that she was giving him was really hard on her she needed half an hour 45 minutes in a day. Just to herself. And I needed to go back I think I think I'd had a bit of a break from from unit lecturing. So I thought a bit out of shape and I'm like I need to get in shape. So I'm like Sharon, why don't you come and train with me in my garage, but I will. I will personal train you as well as training with you. She's like, Yeah, great. So that's how it all really started. I started training this lovely girl, and I spent oh my gosh, I still just love this. I just love watching people. So we turned our garage into PT studio. It went gangbusters all the local mums wanted to train at sent she was still called since it was called since then. And then of course it got a little too big. I opened up a new studio a little bit bigger. I felt huge when I opened it up. It wasn't it was like 100 square meters but it was to me. Making a garage was like oh my gosh, this is so fake. And then open that one up and really outgrew that in two years. It didn't meantime, I had this particular studio that I really really wanted that wasn't even up for rent. It was a huge shoe shop it used to be an IGA and then have been converted to a shoe shop about 30 years ago. And I just loved it and I would go up there this year and I would like I had I play shoes but I'm like trying on the shoes you know just looking around and I was trying to work out how many squat racks can I get in here? I can't have the cables over there. Wonder what's behind that door like I was just sussing it out. And I remember even one day I was so cocky I said the poor girl who hadn't been in the shoes that I was never going to buy to know how much your rent is, like shaky. And she's like No, I don't know how much the rent like oh, so anyway, I I was writing about it. I was manifesting it. I was visualizing myself in that studio. I had the feeling of what it would be like to work there you know every day. And lo and behold of course that's the studio we're in now and it's just perfect. It's on a like, what do you call it a little service road, but we're next to a main road. You know, the parkings great, the visibility is great. It's just the right size. It's absolutely so so good. And so that's where we're at now but you know what I do with clients, the way I run my business the whole way I really relate to people 30 years down the track. It's really it's very, very different. And I'm just loving it. I'm so blessed to have had a career that I've loved it every day since the very first day of working with people because people are awesome.

Laetitia Andrac  15:01  

And you're really embodied that we really see you shining. When we see you doing your thing and you really get energy from that and I love how you say I'm spiritual and I'm starting to really dive deeper into it. But already everything you did, Going there asking question, being in that space, you definitely made it happen. That is awesome. I really love space. Yeah. So some things that I love to ask you is we always have moments in business we're like oh my god, that was a big fucked up moment or I call in my book lighter moment. I did this didn't work but I got this lesson out of it. Can you share with our listener any factor apply to that? moment for anyone was listening and going through that or they may go through that or to kind of learn about your own experience because being over 30 years in business, this is a long time we have a lot of people like intrapreneurship is not for everyone it's not for the faint hearted as we say and going through the cycle of over 30 years. Kudos to you. Nicky's that's really impressive. Thank you any lessons that you can impart our listener around any factor blighter Berman's oh

Nikki Ellis  16:23  

look, I think on a smaller scale now I'm a I'm a very, I think I like to think a very kind very communicative leader. And I really lead with my heart and I'm gentle, and I always looking out for my subcontractors and staff and and really going out of my way to support them understand he was my clients. I'm not a hardcore. This is the way it is and that, you know, leader I'm really about bringing the best out of people, but I don't think I've always been that way. In fact, I know it wasn't because in my early days, I know my fellow colleagues where I worked he called me the queen of confrontation. Because if I was even slightly miffed about something I was like going to call it out there and that note, so I've really changed my approach to be a much more, I think feminine based approach and much kinder and soft and gentle which is much more in line with my nature. Anyway, I think I felt like I had to be something I wasn't to get to the top 30 years ago, and I don't feel that way at all anymore. So that's, that's kind of one light bulb moment. I think by that moment. That my big one, the one that's really stands out in my career, and I don't think I'll ever experienced this again because I won't I won't be in this situation ever again. And I really liked just running my own show. That many years ago we were asked to put in a tender to run PT services at a particular place. Very large place, very prestigious place. And we did and we actually won the tender we went into take over the PT services, but the culture of this place was really toxic. The trainers once we won the tender, basically they all resigned and set up shop at a place almost directly next door to where we are working. So we lost all of the staff even though we called and said, Hey, we want to interview you or like you know, when it's just a change of ownership or a managerial ship is that's all it is. We're not going to make any big changes but we are just going to tweak things a little bit. So our job was really to come in and make it all a lot more financially transparent. Yeah, transparent and viable. But it was just it was the hardest thing I've ever done because we had mess, mess, resignation. The current clients of this place were furious because of course their trainers had gone and they had to then go next door to train and then they might come back just to do their work and we would literally walk into this place and and clients would just like turn their backs on us. It was so hard on my tender heart I'll be honest, I don't think anyone likes feeling like they're disliked. And some of us more than others. None of us really feel like that. That gives us joy to feel like people love us. And that was not like that. And we we stayed there we had a contract for two years. We asked to be released from our contract after 18 months in that time. Despite all of this we had completely turned things around for this organization. They were making far more money than they ever had. And slowly after about 18 months, you know we weren't getting the open hostility because it was it was open hostility that we had certainly gotten the first few few months say the first year even so that was a good learning curve in that I probably even looking back. I probably had a gut feeling that or I think this is maybe not the best call the other thing I've learned is asked more questions because I don't think we quite realize what we're going to get into. And third thing is communicate more because now I probably would have have really divided and conquered got all the trainers individually to really say, look, tell me what's bothering you. Let's sort it out together. Rather than I think we came in so still saying well, yeah, I understand you're upset, but this is how it is now. And when you're running it this way so sorry. So I think that that that was the biggest snooker but gosh, it was very hard on my self esteem and to be honest, it's still it's still when I walk past that place just to get a little touch of Oh, palpitations, it's still after, you know, 30 don't it's not quite that long. 20 years. It's still like, gosh, that was a tough gig. Yes.

Laetitia Andrac  20:56  

And you know in business, we always know that nothing is personal yet. We always take it personally. It's normal because we we are a business owner and so on. So it's important to know that nothing is personal but it's okay also to take it personally and then take the learning out of it and I love how you structured your learning from this because things like this happens all the time. So it's really more than they

Nikki Ellis  21:22  

do and when it is your own business and when it's your own business. You and I both know it's it's not just your business, it's your baby. You know, it's like my business is it's me because I'm the I'm the brand really. And although now it's got bigger, but it's still back then it was very much just an extension of me. So yeah, you're right. It's very hard even though you know, it's not really directed at you as a person. It's still you're the person at the copying it. So yeah, that that's okay. That's a long time ago now and that was really the biggest one. And I think I've been very, very fortunate in a way since then. That I haven't had too many things that I couldn't absolutely reframe as positive. So even work in the garage when when it got a bit too busy. One of my neighbors complained to council and said, look, there are too many cars parked outside. And so I wasn't really turning over all that much money, but I had to pay for a traffic engineer to come and do a full report and I was devastated at the time. It's like $3,000 You know, but you know what it did? It pushed me out of that damn garage, and then me long enough, you know, and so that was really the impetus to go right. venue where it's, it's a much more slick organization. It's actually in what looks like a proper studio. And and it was correct. So I had to step up, because previously I had no overheads. There was no advertising to be done. I just relied on word of mouth. So when I moved into the biggest studio website, okay, now I've got to think of how I'm actually going to get people in the door is good. I felt like a real business woman then. Yes,

Laetitia Andrac  23:02  

and it's definitely you have the small signal of gut feeling. We'll touch on that in a second. And then if you don't listen to that, it's like, oh, the neighbors complaining, oh, this is happening. It's like Girl, you're ready to put your big hands on that and there and share your light with everyone on it. And said at some point, I had this gut feeling that it was not right and so on. Share with us an intuitive, courageous move that you made in business. And at the time, it may feel very uncomfortable or you may feel out of your comfort zone but you trusted that gut feeling.

Nikki Ellis  23:45  

You know what I'm going to talk about one that's about to happen because when when is this going to air Leticia? Is she

Laetitia Andrac  23:55  

going to air when it works for you, we'll talk about when you're launching this. Tell me about this. All

Nikki Ellis  24:00  

right, so So one of the things I've done recently and this is it's really been interesting because you know when you're doing something difficult and you know you have these inner arguments of me right and then this other little boys goes, Oh my God, but what if, and I feeling like that right now? So over the last few years, as you know, because you're one of my business coaches, but I've worked with lots, lots of different women, particularly a couple of guys, mainly women to really improve myself as the business woman. And it's been great. I've learned so much one of my friends a few months ago, said to me, you know, you're really at that point, but you seem to know a lot about business. Have you ever thought about like opening your arms up? Have you ever thought about getting an agent and actually getting yourself out there and I'm like, huh, I've no I've never thought about that. She said look, it'd be perfect for you and she had just the right person. So I thought okay, so I started putting up my feelers with this. This woman Her name is Tess, she runs a PR agency in Auckland actually, which is a funnily enough, that's where I'm from originally. And I really love this girl and she's like, Yeah, you are so highly promotable. And you know, she said, we've got a couple of angles one is you know, kind of like this. These are my words, not hers, but all but awesome because I'm 57 years old, but awesome. And she said, and also the other angle is, you know, all your work about menopause. Now, I'm not a researcher and menopause. But what I'm good at is being engaging and sharing knowledge that other people have put out that so like, those are the two angles, and she has really been fantastic. So she's getting me a lot of publicity. And we've got something really big launching on either Saturday or Sunday this weekend, which is I've got a big article in the Daily Mail. Now the Daily Mail has 8 million readers in Australia and 25 million worldwide. So I actually I haven't felt like this for a long long time. But I felt physically sick. When she said they've picked up your article, they want to run with it. We just need a couple more photos and then they're like good to go. And I just had this feeling of oh my god, what have I done so I've had to really talk myself back off the ledge a number of times, knowing that this is the next step. For me if I really want to take it from a great potential, you know, what's a great six figure business to, you know, a really successful business, really scale up really put myself out there? These are the things that I really have to do. So intuitively, I know it's the right thing to do. But there's still that little imposter there like there is for so many of us that says, Who are you? And you know, especially when my agent started saying, don't read the comments. There's a lot of horrible people out there there's a lot of trolls and she said there will be people saying she doesn't look that great for 57 And who's this woman I've never heard of it. You know, she said just ignore it. He just could ignore it and the best way to ignore it is to not even read it in the first place. Just put it out there and kind of forget about it. So but

Laetitia Andrac  27:17  

share with me the link to the to the article. We'll put it in the show notes for everyone to be inspired.

Speaker 1  27:22  

God. Okay, great. There's another million readers. So yeah, so that's that's probably the biggest thing at the moment. Yeah, and

Laetitia Andrac  27:32  

congratulations and I'm really not surprised your story is really inspiring and you know, impacting more woman, your age group, your mission around the menopause, very manageable is and how to stay strong and how to, you know, look after oneself, whatever, age whatever. Is your journey. It's not ending in the beginning.

Speaker 1  27:57  

Ah, 100% 100% and, you know, we know from a marketing perspective that women in my age group, so I'm in my late 50s, but say from 40 onwards, we have more money, we have more time. You know, we are the ones who make the decisions on a lot of purchases in home, especially around health. We are stepping up so I need to get out there and shine my light and share the knowledge,

Laetitia Andrac  28:26  

shine your light and also really be a guiding light for any woman out there wants to reclaim a body that they feel good in. And I know for me, I'm going to turn 14 In a few days as we record. Oh, and for me, it's been real focus after adding my two daughters really getting back into feeling strong in my body. Yeah, I was feeling soft before because through pregnancy, giving birth, breastfeeding and all of that, you know, it's beautiful to embrace a softness and I say we're all going through different seasons. So embrace your own season but I'm getting into the season when I am approaching perimenopause, I can see the social sign already being training I have it I can already pick the subtle sign. And I'm like, Okay, I need to I want to get back into strong bodies I can take me on for years. To come I you know, I love it. I haven't done have my life when way more ways to calm you know, and we know now is with life expectancy growing how keeping ourselves strong will help. Do you have any advice for anyone who's listening to this going through perimenopause or menopause on what they can do to keep a good, healthy, strong body, whatever you feel called to share any tips because we have listeners from any age group and I'm sure your wisdom will be so appreciated. Yeah,

Speaker 1  29:54  

sure. So I know that one of the common things that you hear all the time is any movement is good, and any movement is good. However, as we age and particularly past 30 We start to lose muscle, and then it speeds up as we get older and there's particularly a major drop in lean tissue and strength. When we hit 50. So we really want to ideally start as early as possible to lay lots of lean tissue down lots of muscle down, but it's it's never too late to start. And for a lot of women because 2030 years ago, weight training. It was a thing, but a lot of people were doing more aerobics, but now women are really starting to understand the importance of weight training for metabolic health, etc, etc. So, here are some basic tips for perimenopause and menopause. One is progressive resistance training is fantastic and by that I really mean weight training where you have a plan and you actually follow it. Weight training can be at its heart. Not super exciting because all you're doing is you're doing the same thing over and over and over and getting better and better and better at it and getting stronger when you throw a whole lot of variety into the mix and you go into the gym and one day you do some burpees and some lunges the next day you're doing nice incredible kick, you know, some kettlebell swings and push ups and maybe a bench press and the next day doing something different. We don't have really the time or the data to tell us that you're actually increasing your strength. So by having a plan in your phone or in a notebook, whatever you want to do, and actually writing down what you're doing and then showing that definite progression over time. That is the magic sauce. And the reason I say this is that here's some crazy statistic it's like 90% of people when they go to the gym, don't do that. They are training quite intuitively. Now, I'm all about intuition, just not with your training. You need a plan. You know, it's like strategies for your business. You know, you don't do your financials intuitively. You know, I don't know how much I'm spinning. Oh, do that. You know, you have a plan and it's exactly the same. So I treat my clients much as I would treat my athletes when I train them that we have. We generally have at least three plans a year, sometimes more. We train with the school term to allow my clients to have a little bit more downtime and school holidays when the kids are home. And we've very we do something called periodization. This is where it really is helpful to have a trainer because I know all this stuff. And I can train you in a way that you're going to get super strong that you're not going to break down along the way by just trying to make it a linear transition. We need to make sure that there are peaks and troughs to go with your life because you know, you will have time so you don't train as hard as others and that that's okay. So, here it is. Resistance training is definitely number one thing I would do we want to take what we call a muscle centric approach, as opposed to a fat loss proposed approach even if one of your goals is to lose body fat. to reframe it as I'm trying to lose muscle I became muscle sorry, is going to be much a much better psychological approach for you still lose the body fat, but you'll have something much more positive to focus on. And that really is our goal is to put on muscle because it's going to keep your metabolic rate up is going to keep your strength up is going to keep your power up. It's going to help you keep stronger bones and it's it's just fantastic. It's going to keep you more independent when you're 95. So that's one thing. The other thing is to keep moving. This is nothing new I know for your listeners, but try to not be sedentary for hours and hours and hours a day. Really try and have regular breaks that you get up and move and that 10,000 steps a day tenant is good advice get out and go for your walks. It's simple. Anyone can do it. And the other thing is to talk about kind of a common mistake that premenopausal people make, which is the waist starts to thicken and they panic and go oh my god, I've got to take up jogging again. So take the focus off your high intensity interval training or your high intensity longer training and go for that muscle centric approach. Make sure you're doing your progressive weight training and you're walking and then you certainly do do still some high intensity training as well but don't make it your whole focus particularly because with perimenopause, we often find that one of the vasos symptoms is achy joints. So start jogging and then your knees start hurting and then you go back at you know I was just I'll do nothing. You know it's so weight training. It's nice and easy on your joints. That's actually gonna give them some more support. Because you can have more muscular strength around them. And then beyond that, the big thing is, especially once you start lifting, ensuring that you're getting enough protein and rule of thumb. I mean if you're training with me, I would give you more specific information on this of course, but a good rule of thumb is generally over 100 grams of protein a day, once you are pre menopausal, just to help you maintain that lean muscle mass you currently have, even if you're not lifting yet that will help you to hold on to your your muscle mass. So yeah, and then there's some other tips and tricks but the whole you know podcast about perimenopause.